Charlotte held onto the papers through many moves, across decades, in an effort to prove her husband wasn’t culpable, which is exactly Horst’s rationale for passing them along. However, the year turned out to be one of her best once she reunited with her family from which she was estranged. Few of Otto’s papers remain, but those that do show him sometimes being curt, others being needy. Rabbi Lawrence in conversation with Philippe Sands, international barrister and acclaimed authour of "East West Street" and "The Ratline". Philippe Joseph Sands, QC (born 17 October 1960) is a British and French lawyer at Matrix Chambers, and Professor of Laws and Director of the Centre on International Courts and Tribunals at University College London. It was the moment where Horst had said to me, "You know Phillippe, there's no proof, there's nothing." And then he said, "Would you like a copy?" Philippe Sands' 'The Ratline' is a Nazi-hunter novel with a unique premise: Sands tries to prove to the Nazi's son that his father wasn't a 'good Nazi.' He sort of went, "Mmm hmm." He's not a racist or an anti-Semite. He acts as counsel before international courts, and sits as an arbitrator. By Philippe Sand s. Joseph Alexander, 96, a slight man with a Polish accent, wearing a Hawaiian shirt, spoke on a sunny Sunday to a rapt crowd of about 30 at the Los Angeles Museum of the Holocaust. Carefully, gently, meticulously, he’s engaged every protest, every excuse, every question Horst has raised to show exactly who Otto was and what he did. The community is planning counterprotests and pleading with public officials to do more to intervene in the face of white supremacists. He's not a Holocaust denier. As anti-Semitic crimes rise and Holocaust awareness fades, a survivor is always ready to speak. And he said, "Well, it doesn't prove anything. Was Otto a true Nazi believer, a killer, a mass murderer? Sign up for the Los Angeles Times Book Club. At some point in the filming of the BBC documentary, My Nazi Legacy, Nicholas Frank, the son of Hans Frank, who had been Adolf Hitler's lawyer and was hanged at Nuremberg for mass murder, said of Horst, "You know, he could be a new kind of Nazi." I did once lose my rag, as we would say in London. You can see the full 90min talk on YouTube by clicking HERE. International law is a subject that, on the face of it, has little drawing power. and a USB stick wound its way through my letterbox in London about two weeks later. Yet when laid out side by side with the historical narrative Sands is able to reconstruct, her documents instead show what she did not see, or what she left out, or what she later tried to forget. He was indicted for mass murder, probably more than half a million people. Philippe Sands QC is Professor of Law at University College London and a barrister and arbitrator. She lived until 1985. For someone who listened to the podcast and remembered the answer, this section dragged at first. British novelist John le Carré, who anatomized Cold War spycraft and sometimes even influenced it, has died after a short illness at the age of 89. Sarah Shun-lien Bynum, author of the story collection “Likes,” a finalist for the Times Book Prize in fiction, talks about her destabilizing work. Sands spoke with Day 6 host Brent Bambury about his new book, his relationship with Horst Wächter who, to this day, denies his father's role in the Holocaust, and focusing his book on a perpetrator rather than their victims. How conscious was Horst of what you lost when your family was sent to the death camps by his father's administration? Is that how you would describe your relationship? Horst, the fourth of their six children, was the most devoted to her and shared Charlotte’s archives with Sands. He was half of ‘the most famous argument’ in reality-TV history. But I don't like some of his views and I don't like his sense of denial about what his father did. Time proved him right. It took 30 years, and a reunion, for many to listen. Watch a clip from the documentary following renowned lawyer Philippe Sands as he meets the sons of two prominent German officials who had been instrumental, during the … I think to understand Horst, the remainder of his life — 75-plus years — is about reconstructing that idyllic past and wishing that in some way it could be once more. Her most recent book, My Life in Middlemarch, was a New York Times bestseller. If he cannot break him out of his prison of belief, what hope is there for us now, in America, where we have to fight Nazis all over again? In his latest book, The Ratline, British author Philippe Sands pieces together the life and death of Otto von Wächter. And I said, "What do you mean, mmm hmm?" Essential to the story are diaries and letters kept by Otto’s wife, Charlotte. I want to also understand Horst's motivations for speaking with you, because many of his family were against it. I said, "Sure, why not?" It's a concoction.". After the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol, the answer is obvious: Yes, in 2021, America has a Nazi problem. Javier and I were sitting together in the Sistine Chapel and I said to him, "Why are you so interested in the Wächters, Otto and Charlotta?" Add some “good” to your morning and evening. And if you like, they are damaged and destroyed by their own words because as the acts of killing are going on, she's celebrating the glories of life and he's writing about the absence of Jews to put powder on the tennis court or whatever. Did you ever lose patience with Horst, with that repetitive claim that his dad was a good man? It was in the Vatican. Mike Pence joins Simon & Schuster’s political roster with two-book deal. Box 500 Station A Toronto, ON Canada, M5W 1E6. He was, if you like, the chosen child out of the six. The racist violence in Amazon’s new series left execs ‘shaken.’ Does it go too far? Women’s Prize stands by its nomination of trans author Torrey Peters after open letter. Why don't you give it to the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C.?". How do we get to a more stable democracy? And it's a complex situation. 5 poets address complications of calling L.A. home. At a safe remove we have “The Ratline” by Philippe Sands. “Them,” about a Black family fighting racism and supernatural forces in the 1950s, includes warnings about its graphic depictions of racist violence. How will a reopening city treat them? The evidence is absolutely overwhelming. What he's responsible for is recognizing the crimes of his father, and this is something he will not do and that is problematic. COVID-19 canceled in-person author readings. He takes refuge in the idea that [his] father never actually killed anyone personally, and that's his escape route as the child. What does that mean to you? Like many in Austria and Germany in the 1930s, they both liked skiing and mountaineering and had a long courtship that ended only when she became pregnant. Hear from the poets, historians and fiction writers who gave us the most powerful books of 2020. Five of 2020’s best crime writers on where mystery fiction is today. Philippe Sands: The book is really the interweaving lives of four men closely connected at different times with the city now called Lviv. And I disagreed with that. Now the world is reopening. Reams of documents reveal everything from mundane daily details to Charlotte’s bitterness over Otto’s mistresses, followed inevitably by renewed devotion and denial. And I'd seen one or two items from this vast trove — all the letters, the diaries, the photographs, correspondence, everything between his mother and father from 1929 to 1949 — and I said, "You know what, why don't you give that to a museum? But it's also a love story, the relationship between Otto and Charlotta, which is very central for me. Philippe Sands is professor of law at University College London. Pulling from family archives, British author Philippe Sands pieces together the life and death of Otto von Wächter — a high-ranking Nazi official who was indicted for the murder of over 100,000 Polish citizens — in his new book, The Ratline. (Antonio Olmos) Day 6 13:27 In The Ratline, author Philippe Sands traces the life and mysterious death of a Nazi mass murderer How much did Charlotte know about what the Nazis were doing to the Jews of Poland and Ukraine? We just heard you speaking with Horst Wächter, the son of notorious Nazi Otto von Wächter, and it sounded like you were friends. It was incredible, actually. A tale of two reckonings: How should Manhattan Beach atone for its racist past. A British human rights lawyer and author, Sands has now spent many years working with Horst von Wächter, whose prominent father Otto von Wächter disappeared after the war and was largely forgotten. Annette Gordon-Reed, Ayad Akhtar, Héctor Tobar, Martha Minow, David Kaye and Jonathan Rauch discuss the Jan. 6 riot and what we do about it. It's obviously a huge question. But for the most part, the material is there. Poet Amanda Gorman for president? His 2015 documentary about Horst and Niklas Frank, released in the U.S. as “What Our Fathers Did,” and his 2018 BBC4 podcast “The Ratline” explore this story, but neither has the space this book does to dig into the emotional pull between Charlotte and Otto. Philippe Sands The PEN Hay Lecture: Words, Memory and Imagination - 1945, and Today Hay Festival 2018 , Tuesday 29 May 2018 Novelist Stephen Graham Jones would never let a dead elk or a horror trope go to waste. It was through that book that Sands was introduced to Horst. He lived in the mountains for three years, something he couldn’t have survived without Charlotte, who secretly hiked up to meet him with supplies. Otto dies in mysterious circumstances in 1949, and it's very obvious that Horst really loves his mother. In the opening and closing pages of your book, you have a quote from Javier Cercas, the Spanish writer that you just mentioned. A human-rights lawyer conducts conversations with two men whose fathers were indicted as war criminals for their roles in WWII - Nazi Governors and consultants to Adolf Hitler himself. Sands’ last book, “East West Street,” was a history based in the same part of Ukraine commanded by Otto, exploring the genesis of the concepts of “genocide” and “crimes against humanity.” The same Nazis pass through the pages of both books; most of Sands’ family didn’t survive their atrocities. As Adolf Hitler’s armies marched across Europe, the Wächters moved to German-held regions — Austria, Poland, Ukraine — and into ever grander homes left empty, Charlotte scarcely acknowledges, by fleeing Jewish families. By Philippe SandsKnopf: 448 pages, $30If you buy books linked on our site, The Times may earn a commission from Bookshop.org, whose fees support independent bookstores. And Horst made available to you this treasure trove of Otto von Wächter's family's letters, documents and diaries and photographs and even audio recordings. As a Nazi governor, he is implicated in the murders of tens of thousands of Jews, among them your grandfather's family. After the war, Otto fled and lived under an assumed identity before dying in Rome in 1949.

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